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FYI –
Courts side with ACLU on videotaping police
Court rules that police cannot stop audio-video recording of officers on duty.
http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/5686435-Courts-side-with-ACLU-on-videotaping-police/
Should you, Jason, hold on to your current concept of “rights” without professional, ethical journalism in mind, you should be prepared to defend those “rights” in a court of law. From your comments above, your attitude will eventually cause you to slip and fall in the wrong aisle.
Mr. Sandford, don’t let these uninformed citizens discourage you. You have every right to publish these photographs, and the point you’re making is something we have to remember: the right to privacy does not extend to a public space, and it certainly doesn’t excuse an employee of the state for threatening a member of the press.
Carry on. You’re doing excellent work.
Thank you for your note.
I wonder if all those in favor of Jason’s "rights" would feel the same if they were the subject of the photo? What if the EMS workers had to remove some of their clothing to provide care and Jason photographed them?
This isn’t about journalism, news or rights…it’s about Jason’s poor taste and a lame attempt to get more hits on his dwindling blog.
Another reason to delete Ashevegas from my list of blogs…
Let’s not forget the most important aspect of this discussion. 1 – Is Ashvegas local? He’s probably from some non-local place like Merrimon Ave or something. Go home Douchebag. 2 – Why is this EMS guy helping someone who’s not local? I mean if you’re not from Asheville, then I wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire. 3 – I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that that Shim is from somewhere non-local. Like Arden. Really? Isn’t that closer to Knoxville. Why don’t you stay in TN with your prison jumpsuit you tool.
I mean, Asheville should be like Arizona and just run all non-locals out. It’s not like this town needs tourism or anything. We’re all so self sustaining and shit. Look around at all of this industry we have. There’s….uh the hospital. Um, we have that Gerber factory. Oh wait, that’s just a bunch of restaurants for all of the factory workers to go to. So where do those factory workers work anyway…Well, we still have the world’s largest blanket factory. Oh shit, that’s been closed for 20 years. Guess I’ll go make some clay bongs and play the bongos for a while.
Just a reminder for all of you tools that follow this blog. If it weren’t for tourism, Asheville would be the size of Lumberton. And as much fun. The next time you look down on a "tourist" from somewhere other than Buncombe Co, remember that those are the people that are keeping your hippies butts employed. Now go fill my tea glass and shave those armpits, Stinky.
Bottom Line: i have lived near Asheville for over 20 years and NEVER been to Bele Chere. Reason? It’s too damned HOT for me!!! LOL! I’d love to see what all the hoopla is about, but I just can’t take the heat!!!
As to taking pics of folks in public… I’d say these days, if you’re out in it, EXPECT to be photographed… If it’s not a professional or news staffer, it’ll be Big Brother… Fact of life now a days… Get used to it or vote differently.
I see Americans lying down for all sorts of things I think they shouldn’t be. They should be rioting in the streets against plenty of their rights that are being violated, but they don’t… I can’t believe this country is headed in the direction it is… and we all just allow it, every day… Until we take a stand and say NO MORE… It’s just going to continue getting worse and worse. This is just ONE of those issues. Privacy is a term that — — USED to be…STAND UP PEOPLE!!!!!
Not entirely related, but sort of:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/behind-47/
Dear AshVegas,
I read your blog and have no personal knowledge, experience or understanding of journalism or the law. I do feel it is necessary for me to share my unqualified opinion in an open forum, call you names and slander your work, AND I will do all of these things without revealing my identity.
If anyone tries to challenge my anonymous and unqualified opinion, I will continue the name calling and further create so-called facts to support my claim, all while criticizing your efforts to keep a weblog.
Sincerely,
Every Schmuck above this posting.
I hope you enjoyed my satirical comment. I am appalled at the response from such a large group of people. I fail to see any intent to harm or issue with privacy. No single person is identified in the picture. No specific organization is identified and no inaccurate information was provided.
The larger issue is the lack of knowledge and understanding so many citizens have of their own rights provided by law or the Constitution. There is no right to privacy that matches the level of expectation of many of the previous comments.
Anyone that disagrees, I encourage you to research and learn more about the law. the Constitution, the Privacy Act and other legal precedents.
– Dale Wyrick.
Congratulations, EMT, you just lowered yourself to the same ranks of society as police. That takes effort.
While I understand and agree that privacy is important, if you attend a public event like Bele Chere, you need to realize you will more than likely get in some photos or video.
As far as the fainting person goes, should Jason have blurred the face? Maybe he should have, I can see both sides of that coin. Would you all feel the same way about this if it were the Citizen Times or Mountain Xpress posting the pic without blurring? Or, what if there were one of the local TV news stations filming and airing the fainted folks with EMTs?
I think this garbage reporting is not in the best interest of anyone! especially the minor exploited on this blog, yes this male is a minor! he was experienceing a personal crisis that was made into a public disgrace! how dare you!!! this child has to deal with his illness everyday and now, further embarrasment. Way to go rockstar, maybe you will never develope a illness (non-heat related) and no one will get to exploit it for you! As for the one who commented on the medics, those guys are the greatest, I dont know where you get your information from but they have assisted the citizens of the city for a number of years and have done an outstanding job of it! I know because they saved my father from cardiac arrest. ALL emergency workers in Asheville deserve the upmost respect, especially in a emergency situation. They dont have time to deal with unruly reporters Give them some room to work!!!!!!!
Looks like opinions are split right down the line between folks who do not discriminate at all between what is legal and what is ethical and those who believe the photo demonstrates taking abusive advantage of a person when they are completely vulnerable and unable to fend for himself/herself.
I was very surprised when I saw the photo on Ashvegas as it is not in keeping with what I have come to understand of Jason’s outlook and personality.
? A momentary slip in Ash’s usually good judgment?
Well Jason‚ are you going to respond to any of these posts? I’d be very interested to hear your reply to Mr. Shroyer and a left wing female paramedic. I’d also to be interested in your defense of how this was in good taste and/or a relevant story.
You sound like an awful person with a huge ego and no common sense. These people had a patient to attend to, they wouldn’t have bothered with you if you weren’t in the way. Grow up and quit acting like a victim you parasite.
Asheville Momma seems to be confusing the legal right to take the photo (which Jason has) with the restrictions on what he can do with it once he takes it, and whether he needs the subject’s permission to do those things (which might depend on how a court interpreted the purpose of his blog, were it to come to that). Assuming she’s not lying about having been involved in a case, she’s already made the distinction in her brief description of it, although she’s jumping to a false conclusion about it: she won her case because of what was done with the photo, not because it was taken.
Gosh Jason – I think the female paramedic and Mr Shroyer just handed you your male parts in a plastic bag. If what Mr Shroyer says is true about the victim being a young male and not a woman as you reported……well, I think you may need to put out some type of retraction or apology for your inept reporting. Let’s face it – maybe you should stick to the BLOG thing and leave the big boy stories to the real reporters.
He has every legal right to shoot this photo, however News Photographers should always "seek the truth and minimize harm". If the EMS worker had never said a word to Jason, then this photo is true photojournalism. A great shot. But, when the EMS worker tells you to leave, each photographer reacts in different ways. Jason reacted aggressively, CT acted aggressively.(Front page post) Unfortunately the person being treated was left on the back burner. That person was the story and as journalists you didn’t tell that story. You proved a point, but you did more harm than good. That is exactly what News Photographers should try and not do. With that said, if media companies weren’t so damn cheap, no way does the CT publish this article about the EMS worker, our job is to tell the story, not pick fights.
Ashvegas,
I agree with the right to photo where and how you want to. But I just don’t think this was the right choice for you to post on the blog. However, I still enjoy your reporting/blogginh and I think you will be fair and responsible.
Dear Mr Sandford, First off, the person in the photo is an underage male not a female as you report. You were in the way during the photo because I was there and saw you. Your "story" was irresponsible and dangerous due to interfering with EMT’s while a person is in distress. That is not smart to do anytime but especially during BC due to the rise in medical calls. The EMT’s were on their way to a broken leg call when they saw this young BOY on the ground. Your job as a reporter is to REPORT the news and not try to be part of the news. Get your facts straight before you post something. If you were a real reporter you would have stayed around long enough to cover the whole story and see what happened and if the BOY is OK. You should be arrested for bad reporting. Sorry you got your ego hurt while getting in the way.
Well Ash, looks like no Weegee Pulitzer for you, apparently-
Jason, you are a douchebag. This gratuitous ego self-stroking online only confirms this. At the very least, you should have blurred out the patient’s face as a courtesy, since your POINT was WITH THE MEDIC, not the patient. In paramedic/EMT school, they train medics to assume scene safety first before any of the basic ABCs (Airway, Breathing, Circulation). If the patient was breathing and moving, those ABCs are usually at least patent, and clearing off obnoxious public is the next priority, and in the patient’s best interest. True media, WLOS, or any true print photographers from markets like Charlotte or larger, do not intrude on-scene like some amateur parasites; they at least give respectful distance. True reporters would also bother to look up basic protocols for emergency caregivers. Google National Registry of EMTs and look for scene size-up flowcharts, and see if I am lying. Check out any major markets in this state when they cover personal tragedy and notice how their coverage lacks your infantile factor. Grow up or grow a pair.
You are a jerk looking to make a quick name for a blog, if it were your family member you wouldnt be taking the picture. It is clearly against the law to interfere with LEO or EMS in the perfomance of thier duties…you were interferring…next time maybe you will be the one on the sidewalk…
Yea you’re wrong. I don’t know what makes you think you have the right to take a picture of someone else and post it on the internet. You make some sort of revenue from this site due to the adverts, and thus that person you took the picture of needs to give you permission to use their picture. You may even have to pay them money for the use of their picture because like I said before. It is generating revenue for YOU. Either way, you’re a whiny little baby.
You’re simply a douche for publishing the photo with the face visible. It adds nothing to the story. Because you maintain a blog that somehow elevates you above everyone else and into a photo journalist??? You’re taking yourself a little to seriously.
Many years ago read an article in Readers Digest.
~~~~~~
A news photographer WROTE about THE PICTURE HE DIDN’T TAKE.
Didn’t name names, cities, anything– and 30 years later I remember the short moving story so well.
~~~~~
The PICTURE that did not become a photo- was such a sadly powerful complete snapshot of a horrific situation that the news-person certainly could have won an award- a big award.
~~~~~~
He felt not only was it an invasion of privacy– it was UNETHICAL!
~~~~~
I agree.
~~~~~
Your photo was not news.
It will not be remembered in 30 years.
~~~~~
You made it about you.
Not real journalism…..
Please step away and re-think this one.
I liked Ashvegas better when he was harping on WLOS’s ineptitude rather than turning his blog into a rubbernecking site.
Legal is quite different from ethical, right, courteous, or tasteful.
I’ve no idea why this young person was down on the sidewalk and Ash does not state nor imply the reason. I’d not be surprised to learn that many people became faint or actually passed out due to heat alone.
I am a fan of Ash but I must say that had I been the one to collapse I would not want my photograph taken. Walking down the street, dancing in the street, playing in the fountain – o.k. – but not while collapsed and certainly not while receiving medical attention.
It might not be a matter of legality but it is a matter of courtesy and civility.
Jason is such as ASS-vegas. He definitely has no compassion for this person. How would he like it if he was photographed in a similiar situation and his photo was published. He would probably cry like the self-important baby he is.
I hope all of you that agree that this picture is fine to publish has a MINOR child with a medical condition in a PUBLIC area lets everyone take pictures and post them on a web site esp asheville citizen times. If he was trying to do a story he should have at least got his facts correct. This was not a "female" and the subject had not "passed out" from the heat. Who is the JERK here?? There would not be a problem other than it is very hard for EMS to do their job in this kind of situation, Im sure they dont need someone with a camera standing over them taking pictures of something that is NOT NEWS, a car wreck or something of that kind might be concidered NEWS….
Asheville Momma,
Your court case sounds interesting. Can you provide some details so that we know more about the context? Who took the picture of you? Where was it publicly displayed? What was the substance of your lawsuit? What did you win?
Thanks, and hoping you will reply.
"What if, for instance, this person is hiding out from an abusive ex-partner? Maybe they’ve moved from another town, but that ex-partner is crazy and is looking for her/him?"
I don’t think that’s the concern of any person who might be photographing the scene. This person was out in public, on a street where anyone could have seen her, and anyone could have photographed her. Videos of her could potentially be uploaded on YouTube, photos to Flickr, and so on. She has no expectation of privacy on a public street and if someone who she doesn’t want to see her happens to see her, well then…not much anyone can do about it really. Let’s say an abusive ex-partner was on the street that day as well and just happened to see her there. Are you going to tell me that they shouldn’t have been on that street where they could see her? When anyone goes out in public, you can be photographed, and it can be put online for all to see. It’s just a chance you are taking in times when everyone has cell phone cameras and pocket sized video cameras and a Facebook page.
Jason, good for you. I say screw all the haters and whiners. If it were up to the likes of Bill Belichick and other crybabies on here they would just let the police and other emergency personnel do whatever they want. The First Amendment be damned.
Let me guess…..was it the fake wanna-be 300lb plus paramedics with the local wanna be be ambulances (MEDIC?) Those guys are jokes! They are the equivalent to rent-a-cops who can’t cut it on a police force.
They stand around in their second hand ambulances and wait for Buncombe County EMS to get busy and try to beat them to the next wreck.
JOKES!
Jason,
This has got to be the most stupid BS posting ever on your blog. You should never, ever be posting this sort of stuff cause its really not newsworthy and you most certainly violated the privacy of the individual receiving EMS care. Why would you make such a big deal of this? Was it because you were yelled at by the EMS crew? And why would you even put this in the paper? Shame on you Jason. Maybe the heat downtown got to you, cause this is not normal. I too am losing respect for this blog.
Perhaps it’s not illegal to take a photo of someone in a completely vulnerable state. You’re probably well within your legal rights. It’s just kind of a dick thing to do. Show some compassion to people in misery. No one wants their photo taken while they’re going through something traumatic, and I’m sure even more so they don’t want their traumatic experience posted all over the Internet. Would you? Show some compassion.
Asheville Momma….care to name the case?
Seems to me that Jason has let this Citizen Times blog partnership go to his head. This incident makes you look ridiculous, Jason. Did you have the right to post the picture? Sure. Do you look like an insensitive um… jerk? Absolutely. You got all upset because someone threatened you as they were dealing with a life/death situation. The EMS clearly was not thinking straight as they were focusing on stabilizing a patient. Unfortunately, they had to deal with some schmuck trying to "craft" a photo. GO WORK FOR THE NATIONAL INQUIRIER! With your desire for sensationalism, that’s where you belong. You’ve lost my respect. While I’m at it, I think your blog is no longer relevant now that you have joined forces with the Citizen Times. There is a thing called integrity… look it up, and be sure to show the editor from the Citizen Times that let you post the photograph.
that’s a woman?
You were within your rights to take the photo, much as you would be within your rights to say horribly racist things under the guise of free speech. Doesn’t make either the right thing to do.
As a former newspaper reporter and photographer, I can say that he was well within his legal rights to photograph a woman on a public street during a public festival. Thankfully that is legal, or reporters and photographers wouldn’t be able to get the kind of stories and shots they need.
Ethically, however, this gets into kind of a grey zone. When I used to take pictures of accident scenes, for example, I always made sure the victim was not in the picture. Coming from experience, I wouldn’t want my picture plastered all over a paper/blog if I had been hurt or injured. I think it is a little tasteless and unnecessary to show people’s faces who have passed out because of the heat. The gawking of the people around them is enough of an embarrassment.
Jason, you might be within your rights to take the photo, but posting without permission is probably not right legally or morally. What if, for instance, this person is hiding out from an abusive ex-partner? Maybe they’ve moved from another town, but that ex-partner is crazy and is looking for her/him?
Though I agree you had every right to shoot that scene, it was probably good that you eventually left since that EMT was obviously more concerned about you taking pictures than tending to the injured woman. maybe dude should worry more about doing his job than who’s looking at him.
In this instance BOTH of you were correct.Buncombe County has some of the FINEST paramedics/EMS personel in the area.They do a wonderful job and know their business well.Just as YOU know YOUR job well.Might I suggest this scenerio….YOU came upon the scene started taking your photos,which you have every right to do.ONCE the EMS arrive,THEY have their job to do.Telling you to move back is STANDARD PROCEDURE for EMS as they need their workspace too.YES they are within their RIGHTS to summons the police if you do NOT adhere to the request to clear their work area.If you wished to continue to take photos why not use a zoom lens.I know this will probably never make it to print but the fact is that newspapers and the ems have hardly ever gotten along due to the fact that one has always tried to sensationalize others misery.
The EMT’s concern should have been his patient. People want the news and in this town very little on the scene reporting is done. For WLOS, if it doesn’t happen on Long Shoals Road we have to hear about it on WHNS 21 news. COVER THE NEWS not an hour and a half of human interest. PD, Fire, EMS do your job and people will see what you’re really about. Don’t be the community’s social conscience.
Of course you were within your rights to snap a pic, but why in the world are you making such a big deal about this situation?!
This is not major news and it really does infringe on the privacy of the person being treated? Posting stuff like this is not relevant to anything. Time to move on.
This may be legal, but your display of bad taste is stunning in this regard. I am removing this site from my favorites from now on.
I don’t think photos are really necessary to back up the story in this case. Everyone fully believes it was hot enough for people to pass out so I don’t think having photos as evidence really seems necessary. It may be legal but it sounds very inconsiderate. If I had been in the woman’s shoes I would thank the EMS worker for trying to protect me and help me if I was in that compromised situation and could not speak for myself. People can get so focused on what they have the right to do that they can sometimes lose sight of what is the decent thing to do.
Yup –
Just because you find something offensive to your particular sensibilities doesn’t mean that there is a law making what you find offensive illegal.
Another poster is right — 99% of news wouldn’t be reported if it was illegal to take pictures of it.
That being said – most professionals DO use prudence- how many times have we seen galleries of photos of an accident on the AC-T website, showing damaged vehicles from all angles, tow trucks, and EMS crews, but NOT the victims, who were already taken away. That’s often because the reporter chose NOT to take pictures of the victims and put it on the Web. They only put up the pictures from after the ambulance left
It’s not about Jason using bad taste to document, write about and post a photo of someone falling out on the street. It’s more about it being dangerously hot. And maybe time to schedule the annual event in the cooler months.
I feel for the vendors who had to man their tents /booths in that heat. Having been an exhibitor in the past, I know that kind of heat kills business, (with the exception of drinks.)
If one acts the fool out in public, then one should not be offended if they end up on public display. Don’t like it Asheville Momma? Simple really. Don’t go out and be a dumbass in public.
Oh and the person in the pic not only deserved it, she EARNED it. Learn what the latter word means because many have forgotten what it means.
J, I would press the issue on this one; the local public servants often seem like they have been given powers far and above those granted by the laws on the books.
To those who think "it isn’t right to invade someones privacy by taking photos" … do you watch the WLOS nightly news, do you read the newspaper, do you troll youtube and other sites with "funny videos", where do you folks think these images come from?
Actually, I know this aspect of the law quite well. I went to court and won in a similar case a few years ago when I was photographed without having given my permission on a public community college campus, and the photo was publicly displayed. That is why I bothered to comment.
But by all means, please continue your uninformed pontificating.
And Jason, if you had any class, you’d at least obscure the woman’s face. If I knew who she was I’d inform her of your invasion of her privacy. It’s tasteless and juvenile as well as illegal. But, hey, you sure showed those EMTs, didn’t ya?
From a Flickr posting:
Most law enforcement officers know what the photographer’s rights are, they know that they don’t have the right to prohibit your activity but they do have the right to prohibit you taking photographs from a particular place if such activity impedes them or is a danger to public safety, including your own. Once they have moved you to a reasonable place, you are still within your rights to carry on taking photographs, although, what they consider safe and out of their way might not always provide the best vantage point, and they know this. . . .People are fair game while in a public place except in areas where they would reasonably expect privacy, such as in their own homes, toilets, dressing rooms and medical installations.
You are within your rights to photograph and publish something like this that happens in public. However, I can’t say it is in good taste at all…
Methinks Asheville Momma needs to study up on the law a bit. He has every right to photograph anyone who’s on a public sidewalk. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy there, no matter one’s employer. Now whether he has the right to publish that photo here without a release from the woman likely would depend on a court’s ruling, were she to pursue it (and given that the Ashvegas site appears to now essentially be part of the AC-T, it’s likely a legitimate usage).
Asheville momma, you are wrong. There is NO expectation of privacy on a public street in the USA.
The EMT was wrong to say anything.
Funny how we don’t get concerned about the increasing video surveillance cameras running all the time, but get snippy about news events being covered.
Also, for reference: The Photographer’s Right (pdf)
Asheville Momma –
Actually, if you’ll read the law, anyone can photograph pretty much anything that happens on a public street without permission. The only exceptions are for things like photographing in public spaces on military bases and the like. This is part of the 1st amendment protections we have as Americans. A person being sick or hurt doesn’t negate the fact that, according to the law, no one in a public space (such as a street fair) has a legal expectation of privacy.
Ethically, should he take a snap of someone being ill and post it on his blog? That may or may not be a different matter, and would be entirely up to the artist (and blog owner, if they were separate folks). But legally, taking pictures of stuff happening in public spaces is pretty much the textbook definition of legal and protected journalism. If it was illegal 99.99% if the news you and I watch/read would never get reported.
Asheville Momma you have no idea what you’re talking about. Jason is perfectly within his legal rights.
@Asheville Momma – What part of "Freedom of the Press" did they not cover at your school? I hope you aren’t teaching your kids that!
Also ~ THAT’S A GIRL?!?
Jason,
You are 100% right though the ems worker was trying to keep some level of privacy concerns. Ems workers had a hard day up there, lets blame it all on the heat.
Thanks
RB
I agree. I would have done the same thing, taken the photo. Public event.
Then why did you walk away? I would have stayed and taken pictures until the cop got there.
Whining about it on your blog doesn’t point out in any real world, tangible way that they were clearly assholes and in the wrong.
You don’t seem to be the only person encountering cops who can’t stand to have their photo taken (or I guess in your case EMTs).
Here’s a recent ABC News article: http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/videotaping-cops-arrest/story?id=11179076
And here’s a blog devoted to the subject: http://carlosmiller.com/
Interesting stuff.
You may have been on a public sidewalk, but you were invading the woman’s privacy. I wouldn’t want you taking pictures of me if I had passed out. Public property rules end where personal privacy begins. You have every right to photograph a public employee doing their work on public property, but not to photograph a private citizen without their permission. You would have had to position your camera in such a way that the "victim" was not recognizable. I’m surprised you don’t know that.
If you don’t have permission to publicly display the photo that is posted, you should remove it immediately. You are violating a private citizen’s rights.
Reminds me, Gizmodo recently did a piece (via a piece form Popular Mechanics) about how photography bullying is illegal and what to do: http://goo.gl/BXTk